Marshall: You know that song, don’t you? Stan: I love Queen. Good! Don’t stop me Stan: She did it. That was good, I wish the camera
was recording. Well, this videos demonetized. Hey Marshall Marshall: Hey Stan. Stan: Welcome back to San Diego. Marshall: Great to be back here in San Diego
for the Draftsmen Podcast, I’m Marshall Vandruff an art teacher and drawer. Stan: I’m Stan Prokopenko, founder of Proko.com
where we teach people how to draw. Marshall: Your ears okay over there Brandon? Stan: When that ‘founder’ came out of my mouth,
I was like “yeah, Brandon’s ears just died”. Marshall: Let’s roll the intro. Marshall: it’s always like the first
time. Stan: What do you mean by that? Marshall: I mean it’s – watching that intro
is always like seeing it for the first time. Stan: Uh-huh. Today’s topic is
gonna be about – it’s kind of your thing. Marshall: My thing? Stan: You’re gonna be leading today Marshall. Marshall: Am I? Stan: Absolutely. Marshall: It’s because we can talk about environment
and – Stan: Well, you put this into our little show
planning thing and I’m not quite sure what we gonna do. Marshall: Did I? What’s the topic officially? Stan: Its environmental conditions. Marshall: Environmental conditions… Oh yeah
of course. Stan: Focus on environmental reports, the
TSA report – Sean: Global warming. Stan: Global warming Marshall: We did talk about this once before.
Because you’re talking about building this environment so that you could focus on – Stan: Oh! Ideal – I thought this was different. Marshall: No, this is different. Now we’re
talking about environmental conditions for – wasn’t it for developing an artist, for
developing a talent so that if you want to – Stan: I’m not sure. Marshall: OK. Stan: You start and I will follow your lead. Marshall: OK, I’ll start this because I
– just a few weeks ago in a class, I had a student take me aside at the break to explain
that his family not only wasn’t supportive, they were anti supportive. They wanted him
to stop trying to be an artist. Now, within a matter of ten hours previous I had gotten
an email on the same thing and I also had another student in that class who is one of
the best young promising artists I know who has had some family tension over “you shouldn’t
do this” and I had to address it to the class. Stan: How did you address it? Marshall: I said “look, the better thing is
if you’ve got a supportive family. So let’s talk about – let’s talk about what’s best,
we’re gonna get to that but – Stan: Get a new family… Marshall: I need a few minutes on the supportive
family thing. Okay, if you’ve got a supportive family that treats you even in your adolescence
and your college years with the same kind of respect they treated your childhood which
is to let you give this a shot, that’s great. I would not have been a professional illustrator
if I had not lived in Gene and Eleanor’s home until I was 26 years old because I got jobs
but I didn’t get enough jobs to make my living and so they supported me, I was the first
person in the history of our family of amateur artists and musicians to ever say I’m going
to do this as a professional and they were confused about it and there was a little tension
about it but there was never any discouragement. So, I had a really good thing as I know you
did too. Stan: Oh yeah, I lived with my parents since
I was 28. So I lose! You beat me to it Marshall. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: You were 26 you said? Marshall: Yeah, and I could not make a living
as an illustrator till I was almost 28, that was where I started, Ok, now I’m actually
making my living, exposed to just getting jobs. So that’s the ideal, but now let’s move
to the next point of thought here which is that you can have support around you that
is too supportive, everything you do gets put on the refrigerator and praised and you
are not up against the real world where when you go out there, you are not going to get
that kind of praise, you will simply not get hired because you’ve got nothing that you’re
pushing against. Stan: Yeah, there’s no struggle. Marshall: Right. So, if you have got an unsupportive
family, it’s not a good thing. It’s not a good thing to have the people trying to keep
you from running your race by trying to hold you down, but let’s take a moment to empathize
with them, 9 out of 10, 99 out of 100, people who set out to be professional artists are
not able to pull it off and all they know is that if you’re gonna set out to be an artist,
you’re gonna be just like this other person and this other person and all of these people
that they know that you’re gonna end up poor and they don’t know that much about the industry
and they don’t know how it actually happens and so they’ve got a fear that you’re gonna
be the one that is dependent on everyone else for the rest of life. Stan: Is it really 99%? Marshall: Well, when you look at art school,
when you look at people who have become art majors in universities, you figure they’re
devoting 4 years of this, it’s not 1 out of 10 that actually make a living in the industry
doing the thing they studied to do. Stan: But there’s so many jobs that are – Marshall: There are so many jobs. Stan: Like, how – I don’t get it. Marshall: Well, let me – Stan: Are we talking about all created – like
all jobs for artists or are we talking about just like gallery painters and – Marshall: I would make a graphic like this,
there are a hundred thousand jobs or more in Southern California of people that are
making their – Stan: Just in Southern California? Marshall: Just in Southern California, people
that are making their living in the creative field. Just Los Angeles alone, it’s gonna
be many many thousands. Well, there used to be – it used to be there was something like
70 or 80 thousand members of the Screen Actors Guild. And that’s the members of it, that’s
not the ones that are trying to be actors that can’t get into the guild. And then when
you see the people that are trying to get those jobs, it’s gonna be in the millions.
So it’s just – it’s going to funnel down. Now, I’m saying this not to make a point about
school or how hard it is but saying this to say that your family that is not supportive
probably has a reason. One of my students, well they wanted him to quit art and go into
the military and he told me, he – he wrote me a description of what happened in his family
history that he had an uncle who was an award-winning artist who burned all of his work, gave up
art and that the family has since discouraged it. It’s like in Coco, you know, no musicians
in this family. That kind of phenomenon really does happen in life. So, it’s a it’s a struggle
if you are the one who has got the budding gift and you’ve got an environment that is
difficult. So now let me get my last point because I know i’ve elaborated a lot; there
is one caveat, one kind of advantage if you’ve got an unsupportive environment. Back in 1964,
a book by Dr. Eric Bern, a psychiatrist, came out called Games People Play. Transactional
Analysis is an interesting book about how people play power games in relationships and
almost all of these games are negative. There was one game, two actually, that can have
some positive effect. One of them is “i’ll Show Them”. It’s a bad game but it’s they
didn’t believe in me and I’m gonna punish them for it, but there’s a more positive variation
on them which is that I am going to succeed because they didn’t believe it. They said
I couldn’t do it, Lucille Ball was told that she could not be – she did not have it to
work as an actress and then she became the most successful. So, you’ve got something
that you can push against and then there’s a more positive variation on it called “they’ll
be glad they knew me”. This is that I am going to succeed, they will wish that they treated
me better but I am going to succeed in spite of that and so you’ve got this straightjacket,
you’ve got a struggle – Stan: It sounds very similar. Marshall: They are very similar, but he figured
the all shows them was more of a punishing thing, that they’ll be glad they knew me will
be at least that they get a caveat; that is our child, that is our nephew, that is our
person and they did succeed and I’m you know, I probably should have supported him more
but at least I get to bask in that success after all. Now, I say that knowing that it
that is cold comfort but it has happened, I’ve seen it happen with students who had
a person in their life that didn’t think they could do it and they put their energy down
like a bowl and said “because they don’t believe it, I have got to compensate for the fact
that I don’t have cheerleaders, I’ve got naysayers and I have got to prove it on my
own”. Now, that’s to say, you can have too much negativity that can drag you down, you
can also have too much positivity and if you just could say, “well, what have I got left
if I got an unsupportive family?” you’ve at least got that. If you’ve got a fighting spirit,
you could say “I’m gonna fight that spirit and I’m gonna win”. Stan: For the parents though, listening, it’s
like, even if you believe that it’s kind of risky for your child to go into a certain
field, do you really want to be the person telling them they shouldn’t do it. Like, let
them learn on their own, like be supportive no matter what it is. I mean, unless it’s
like criminal you know. Marshall: Unless you’re from a family of criminals,
you could be a good criminal. Stan: Yeah, but I mean if they have a passion
for something and you just disagree with it, just go with it, like be supportive. Marshall: Next to the last chapter of the
Sports Psychology book, he talked about how to be a great sport parent and it’s really
how to be a great parent and it’s very short but it has a lot to do with playing the role
of emotional support because you’re not the expert in the field. My parents, because they
did not know the field, I remember putting them through anxiety because my dad in particular,
he had built many houses and he did creative work and made his money with it but Marshall’s
gonna set out to be a picture drawer? And I remember there was an energy in him of…
You know, and he wanted to help, he wanted to be supportive, it’s just that he really
didn’t know how and that’s where you seek mentors, that’s why you go to college. Stan: I think that’s okay to be worried, I
mean that just means he loved you and he was worried that you were going on the wrong path,
but did he discourage you? Marshall: No, not at all. Stan: That’s good. Marshall: But I remember when I did an illustration
that I got $300 for, and I remember he was pleased about that, but he wasn’t elated
and then I did a little technical illustration of a cutaway of a cord of a little like a
scuzzy kind of cord thing and they paid me $750 for it and I remember him saying “you
got paid $750 for that?”, I said “yeah”, and I remember his energy feeling relieved. $750
took you two or three days to do it, this could happen. Stan: I guess we were both lucky we had great
parents that supported us. Marshall: Hey well, if you – if you don’t
have that in your family, there’s one thing you can do, you can find a new family, you
can find a new – Stan: Come on… Marshall: Team of support. Stan: Oh not – like you don’t mean find a
new family, you get some friends and – Marshall: I have a new metaphoric family. Stan: Okay, i’ve got you. Marshall: And that means plugging into a positive
community which is the second thing I deal with environment is that environment can have
to do with whether you live next to the toxic dump and it can have to do whether you live
in a place where there’s never any sunshine and all these other things can affect your
productivity and your mood, but by far the most important thing is the people that you
are surrounded by. It is better to be in a not that great physical environment if you’ve
got good community going than to be in a great physical environment where your team members
work against you and all of the other things that can go wrong. That’s worth seeking. Stan: Yeah, where can they find that? Marshall: Some of my best students have been
the ones that they say “I’m into this” and they create these little communities. I’ve
had that happen and wave after wave after wave after wave over last Stan: What do you mean they create the community? Marshall: They create community by becoming
friends, by hanging out, by doing artwork outside – when the semester is over, now they’re
gonna work on their summer project. I’ve seen that happen many times, more times than I
can even recount. So, that’s an example of going to the cheapest school possible but
finding the teachers who will serve you, they’ve got several teachers who serve them and then
finding the peers that will make them stronger and encourage them. And so yeah, that’s what
that’s about, that’s seeking a new family. And if you figure, if my parents will just
for two hundred bucks a month let me have a room to sleep in, I will spend all of my
time in these classrooms and around these people that are making me better. Stan: That reminds me of a statistic that
I found out about. I wanted to make a video about it but I’m not sure if I will, and we
were looking at Google Trends for searches of how to draw, the search ‘how to draw’ and
in June it plummets for like 2 or 3 months for the summer break and then it goes back
up when people go back to school. A search ‘how to draw’. Marshall: That is not a good thing. Stan: No, that just means that everyone’s
searching how to draw while they’re in school and they go on summer break and they stop
drawing. Marshall: School can – some of these environments
can burn people out to where they never – there’ll never be an artist now, because they’re so
– they associate it so much with negative feelings. And to me that happens, when everything
gets organized around midterms and finals and I’ve had students we’ve had – a student
where we had to call in the paramedics from having been up for two or three days on Red
Bull and – Stan: To do it like finish a project? Marshall: Yeah, to finish – to meet the final
deadline and – and so, what are we doing, what is the point of this? That’s not a healthy
thing. Stan: Well, why did they have to – was the
deadline really strict or like what – did they procrastinate – Marshall: Or they take 18 units and now they’ve
got to get it done and then when it’s done, flop over in exhaustion and spend the summer
not doing anything but recovering from what happened in school. Stan: They burn out. Marshall: Yeah, it’s just – it’s really a
bad thing. Stan: Well, do you think that’s the case for
just a few people or that’s the trend for most people? Marshall: It depends on the environment. There
are some environments that that’s the norm and then there are environments where ‘we
did these projects for school, we’re done with them. Now, June’s here, I don’t want
to take a vacation. My vacation is gonna be this next project that I couldn’t wait to
get that one done’, and that’s how Norman Rockwell felt about every illustration he
did, that the next one is going to be the best one. Drew Struzan was asked about his
illustration and he said “my favorite one is the next one that I’m gonna do”. Because
they’ve got this enthusiasm for the work. And if that is characteristic of that social
environment, I think that’s probably a healthy environment for your creativity. Stan: You mentioned something about Modern
Day James… Marshall: Modern Day James – well, he can
tell his own story but he came into my classroom and told the story, he was gonna be a doctor. Stan: He’s one of your students? Marshall: Well, no, he’s not one of – Stan: Or he came in as like a guest to talk
– Marshall: He came in as a guest. Stan: After he was already YouTube famous? Marshall: Yes. And students had told me about
Modern Day James and they were in love with – this was at the junior college. Said, “do
you know about Modern Day James?” So we started to watch Modern Day James stuff in the classroom,
and then when he came out here, I said “let’s have you be in the classroom and I’ll ask
students – what would you wanna ask him”, so I called up his cell phone and you know
what, he’s gonna answer it. They saw him and they didn’t even know who he was because you
don’t recognize sometimes a person from what you know him on YouTube. Stan: Well, mostly you just hear his voice
in his videos. Marshall: That’s right, yeah. Stan: So, he was sitting in the back of the
classroom… Marshall: He was sitting in the back of the
classroom… Stan: And then you’re like “hey, I’m gonna
call him up”. Marshall: And I called him up, unfortunately
the gag didn’t work because the cell service did not – Stan: Oh, his phone didn’t ring? Marshall: So, he did come up to the front
of the classroom and we kind of co-taught the class that evening and he told us his
story; he was gonna be a doctor, he was gonna – I think he even might have started medical
school – Stan: Oh really? Marshall: His parents – he made a pitch to
his parents, he made a business proposition essentially to his parents that they would
give him a certain amount of time to prove himself and because he created his own deadline
for when he would get his YouTube channel together and that kind of thing, he went into
overdrive and treated this as if it were medical school, disciplined himself, didn’t waste
any time and now, he’s Modern Day James. Stan: Wait, what was the business proposition
he gave his parents? Marshall: Well, let me live at home for a
certain amount of time until I can see if I can get my YouTube channel going. Stan: Okay and so his parents were not supportive,
they were forcing him to be a doctor? Marshall: No, they were they were – he – Stan: So, why did he have to make a proposition? Marshall: He change his mind because – instead
of going to medical school, I mean, every every parent wants their kid to do something
like that, I want to start – I want to be an Internet teacher and an artist and so,
he pitched it to them that he thinks he can do this. But I’m telling his story and I’m
probably getting it all wrong – Stan: If you could just tell the best possible
story – Marshall: Yeah, that’s the best I can do. Stan: – what would you wish the story was
like. Marshall: Well, e should do it next time.
We’re gonna open up our phone and get him on the speakerphone and he could say “Marshall,
you got it all wrong, but I still forgive you and then he can clarify it”. Stan: He can comment as well. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: James, if you’re listening. Marshall: James was guy who – Stan: Tell us your story in the comment. Marshall: He was being proactive by saying
“this is unusual to ask for my parents to support me for a while to do this”. Stan: It’s not that unusual, we both did that.
I mean, we didn’t make a business proposition though, we both as adults had our parents
supporting us. Marshall: To make an ultimatum, to make a
bet with them; “I think I can do this in two years or three years or four years. And if
I don’t, how about if I – I pay you back this much”. Stan: Oh! Wait, is this, are you making that
part up? Marshall: No. I’m making this up.
I’m speculating that that could be a proactive way to do it. I mean some parents would say,
“No. Don’t do that. I just want you to go to medical school.”
Stan: It’s also the pressure that we were talking about a few episodes ago where if
you have that, the ‘on and off’ periods where sometimes you just don’t do it and you’re
a little lazy and you need that pressure to get it done.
Marshall: Yes. Stan: That’s a great way to do it.
Marshall: That is pressure to get it done. Stan: What else would you like to add?
Marshall: I’d like to move on to our question? Stan: Really? So, we’re done?
Marshall: So, let’s yeah, let’s do the ad. Stan: Let’s take an ad break?
Marshall: And we can go in the second half. Stan: Oh, you’re not playing the ad for us?
Speaker 1: Oh! No. Crest, brush your teeth! Marshall: How long was that?
Stan: What the fuck man? You brush your own teeth. That’s the ad. The ad has a crest.
That reminds me, Cooper loves brushing his teeth. Marshall: And he’s not even not even two. And he does it himself?
Stan: He wants to do it himself and I keep trying to do for him. No. Sometimes, what
I’ll do is, I’ll brush it for like 15 seconds try to like really get him to do this correctly
and then I’ll let him sit there and like chew on it for two more minutes.
Marshall: It’s crazy though. I remember teaching my son to brush his teeth and it was about
the age of two. And I remember that, now you’re going to do this. We are going to see if you
we can do this on your own. And you’re going to squeeze the toothpaste. He went. Just the
whole thing. Stan: He didn’t start brushing teeth till
he was around two? Or when you were just teaching him? Marshall: I was brushing his teeth for him until he was about two and now we’re going
to do it. But the first thing he did was took the toothpaste tube and squeezed it all out.
And he didn’t know any better. Said, “Okay. Now, see we’re going to have to replace that
whole tooth paste tube.” Which is so hard to be patient. But it was amusing
though to see what a huge job it is to teach a two-year-old and not quite two-year-old
how to brush their teeth. And I remember the thing that went through my mind is that animals,
raising baby birds. The birds have something called instinct. Humans don’t seem to have
this. You have to teach these creatures everything. And if it’s this much energy to teach a small
creature how to brush his teeth, then all the other things, tying shoes and all, there’s
a lot of work ahead. Stan: Yeah.
Marshall: But at least it’s fun. Stan: I don’t know. Maybe my kid is smarter
than yours. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: He seems to pick things up without me having to teach him. How old is
your son now? Marshall: He’s twenty eight. And he can brush
his own teeth or so he’s been telling me. Stan: Finally. All right. Do we have a-
Sean: Do we have a question? Marshall: Yeah.
Sean: All right. So, from Jared. Jared: Hi Stan. My name is Jared. I’m currently
a student in college studying drawing and animation. My dream is to work for Disney
Animation Studios. So, my question is, what kind of variety of drawing should I be adding
to my portfolio now in order to get the best career after school? Thanks.
Stan: This is funny how this works out. We’re talking about portfolios next time. So, yeah,
we’re going to dedicate the next episode to portfolios but we should kind of do a little
teaser. Marshall: I’m happy too. This is something
that I mean, Aaron Blaise is the mutant to life, yeah.
Stan: Yeah. That’s exactly what I was going to say. I just interviewed Aaron Blaise and
one of the questions in that interview was, ‘what kind of portfolio should animators have?’
And he answered that question. So, go watch my interview with Aaron Blaise it’s already
out. Marshall: I’ve got it queued up and I started
to watch it and I have not had a chance to finish it. But he’d be one of the first people
to go to Stan: Yeah. Umm, he says basically what he
would like to see is, if you’re going for an animator position, don’t submit bouncing
balls and all the stuff that they teach you at school. Don’t submit your homework. Submit
actual projects that you did on your own showing that you could tell a story through body language.
Show them that you’re a good actor. You can bring life to a character. Don’t show them
that you know follow through and anticipation like these things could be learned in a few
months. Show then that you got what they actually need which is telling a story. Bringing characters
to life. Marshall: Ralph Bakshi years ago was asked
about, ‘How do you get a career as an animator?’, and he said, “Do an animation. Do some animations.
Show people what you can do.” And that in his time, it was almost impossible to do that.
You had to get a couple hundred thousand dollars to fund it. Now you can do it on your laptop.
Now you can do it with with tools that are readily available. And I think he said that
around 2009, 2010 to a group of animators. But, there’s the first thing, is learn to
animate. And then prove that you can animate by doing some pieces and then seek work. And
if you’re seeking to do this at the level of Disney, well, it wouldn’t hurt to know
Disney’s animation history and to read Frank and Ali’s book the illusion of life. And there’s
just so many resources you can live in the commentaries on the DVDs and the extras and
the history of it and all of that other stuff to learn about what the evolution of Disney
Studios was. Which is interesting in its own right. For full animation, you may know who
Steven Kyoto is. Steven Kyoto and his brothers have been one of the most respected stop-motion
animation studios in Hollywood. He’s the guy who animated Large Marge in Pee-wee’s Big
Adventure. Do you know what I’m talking about? Stan: I know Pee-wee.
Marshall: The truck driver woman that turned into a monster, it was an amazing moment in
film. Large Merge: And when they finally pulled
the driver’s body from the twisted, burning wreck, it looked like this. Aargh!
Marshall: He animated that. He animated the Narwhal in Elf that says, that wishes him
the best. Stan: Okay.
Marshall: And Steven Kyoto and his brothers wrote and animated and they made a film called
Killer Clowns From Outer Space which has a cult following. I have not yet seen it.
Stan: I’ve seen that one. Marshall: But I know people really, really
care about this thing. He has come to speak to my students and he talked about how he
was thinking of doing a stop-motion animation course but he said that Richard Williams animation
course, essentially teaches everything except you just apply it to stop motion instead of
to hand-drawn animation. And I’ve watched that Richard Williams course. Seven, six or
seven times with students. I think it’s a great course. I’m not even an animator but
he teaches you. He talks about the sophisticated use of the basics. And that you just learned
the basics of animation. And then all the greatest animation is essentially just taking
those basics and evolving them into whatever else you’re going to do. And he covers most
of it, almost all of it in that Richard Williams, Animators Survival Kit Animated. So, it’s
the video version of it as opposed to the book. But that’s not about having a career.
Stan: Yeah. I mean he’s asking about a portfolio. Marshall: That’s putting together your skills.
Stan: What to put in portfolio. But I want to say, you’re asking about what drawings
to put in a portfolio. I guess that’s if you’re trying to get into 2d animation, make sure
your portfolio is very, very specific for the job you’re applying for. You know, if
you’re applying to work for Cartoon Network don’t show them a bunch of 3d stuff that you
work. Make sure you can show them that you can design characters. You can animate in
that style. Just make sure that you know what they’re actually looking for. Make it easy
for them to choose you in your portfolio. Marshall: That’s going to be the whole thing
that the portfolio thing is about. Stan: Next week?
Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Okay.
Marshall: Make it easy to choose you. Is that you understand you’re connecting the client
and the talent. Stan: I’m excited to hear your thoughts on
that next week. Marshall: Yeah. Cody Shank is an example in
my life. Cody was in my perspective class in 2014, I think it was, and then that online
school ended, but every time I would come into the online perspective class, he would
be there early and he would have caricatures of 1960s TV show characters. And I thought
this guy knows. Stan: Actors right? Caricatures of?
Marshall: Yeah and caricatures of actors from Hogan’s Heroes and things like that. He was
born in the 1990s, so this is stuff 30 years before his time but I recognized all this
stuff. And so when the school ended and I kept in touch with him I even met with his
parents on Skype and talked with him about doing an internship. He had this love of retro
work from the 50s and 60s which included Jay Ward Productions, Rocky and Bullwinkle and
that kind of thing. Which I like that style of animating. And I proposed to them that
if he were to intern with me that he would work on an animation. And so he did that.
We worked. Stan: He sang about the Proko animation?
Marshall: Yeah. That was the thing for you. Stan: It hasn’t been released yet.
Marshall: It hasn’t been released yet. Stan: It waits for the prospective course.
Marshall: Yeah. So, we can always cut this. Stan: Which is going to come in 2037.
Marshall: Yeah. Yeah right. We can always cut this out if it’s not appropriate.
Stan: No, let’s record it. But that is a very, very good animation that’s ready to be published
when the prospective course comes out that Cody Shank made. I love that cartoon.
Marshall: And he was not an animator before, he took one or two of the online classes in
animating. And before we did this, before we did this internship, I sat down with Dave
Pruiksma. Dave Pruiksma is one of the great Disney animators. We taught at the same school.
He animated Mrs. Potts, you know, Angela Lansbury’s character and lots of other Disney stuff.
And I said, “Look, I’ve got a guy who wants to get good at limited animation. He’s going
to do an internship. It’s going to be like that Rocky and Bullwinkle stuff.” I said,
“What do you, any thoughts about this?” He said, “The first thing he should do is learn
to animate.” And that means learn the stuff that the Disney animators and others were
developing so much in the 1930s. Stan: Right. Learn the fundamentals.
Marshall: Yes. Stan: But the portfolio doesn’t show that.
You don’t have to show your fundamental studies. Marshall: Yes. Okay. But let me carry through
this. Stan: Right? Okay.
Marshall: He said that the great limited animation and television at the time, this would include
Hanna-Barbera stuff, it’s not full feature animation. They couldn’t do full feature animation
because they didn’t have the time that work on something for two years. They got to crank
these things out every week. But he said those animators who came from feature animation,
doing stuff for Warner Brothers and MGM and Disney, they were good animators. So, then
when they go to TV and they got to cut corners and make it simpler, they know what they’re
doing as animator’s and they just find inventive ways to do it simpler. So, I told Cody about
this and he understood. But we figured, let’s do a little bit of a shortcut. Watch a lot
of these Rocky and Bullwinkle fractured fairy tales and these kinds of things that they
do. And Cody did that and did it and did it until he wired the style of that kind of drawing
and then bit a time, we worked for almost three years by way of Skype. I never even
met Cody in person. Stan: Yeah. Me neither.
Marshall: But we worked on it bit at a time, storyboarding it out, getting the the voices
in there and then he pulled it off. And the result of this is that without the world knowing
who he is yet, you started hiring him as an animator and doesn’t he do, I mean, he does
most of your 2d animation. Stan: Yeah. And the anatomy course, I think
halfway through we started replacing some of the Skelly stuff with more 2d animation and
he’s the one that does all that and all. Marshall: But I admire Cody just because he’s
been a joy to work with and he’s a hard worker and he’s talented and he liked that style.
So, you find somebody who says, “I love the 1960s style.” Okay, that doesn’t mean we’re
going to be pulling you away from doing this, we’re going to find a way to co-travel. And
that is a little microcosm of the way many a story is told. That you learn how to do
it. You do it. You show people. You got to get good enough to do it regularly. That’s
one of the things that can be problem. If you take three years to do an animation and
then somebody hires you to do it and you’ve got to get it done in a month or two, you’ve
got a problem. So, doing the slow motion thing to learn how to do it, then doing another
one, then doing another one and say, “Now, I’m ready to start meeting deadlines instead
of just pulling it off. Stan: Oh, yeah. I guess you’re saying if you’re
going to be applying for a job make sure you’re actually ready to apply.
Marshall: Right. Stan: Don’t just put try to put together a
strong portfolio. Marshall: Yeah. In the industry there used
to be a nickname and I won’t mention the name of the school but other people have publicly,
they called it the, the name of that school a problem. Which is that you spent a year
doing in an illustration that is so awesome and then nobody can hire you to do that illustration
because you need one year to do it. Stan: Yeah.
Marshall: So, you never learned to be a professional by doing it on deadlines but it’s okay to
spend a year or more doing an animation if that’s where you’re learning the craft.
Stan: Marshall. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: What’s your thing? Marshall: I’m going to tell you what my thing
has been. I have been living in a another documentary. I’ve only watched this once.
It’s called The West. It’s produced by Ken Burns and directed by Steven Ives and it came
out in 1996. In 1989, he came out with one called the Civil War. But I didn’t have television.
I never saw these things on television. And I had no interest in the civil war when I
was in high school when they tried to teach it to us. But everybody says, “You got to
see the Civil War. You got to see it.”, so I watched it on VHS and it was so moving and
so powerful. So, I knew that The West would be good but I never saw it until just this
last month. And it is so moving and powerful. And to a person there’s like total of 12 hours.
Over eight or nine episodes. But it puts you into that framework of where you look at what
happened on this continent 200 years ago to about a hundred years ago. And there is so
much horror and glory and it’s not one of those things where you can watch it casually.
These are going to be an hour and a half where you’re going to be put into looking. It’s
tons of photographs because the Civil War was documented and the Old West was documented.
And so, you’re going to look into the faces of people who’ve been long dead and you’re
going to hear their stories. And I think it’ll be interesting to anyone. But to anyone who
lives on this continent or if you’ve driven across this continent. Which I have a couple
times and all other large portions of it. You will see the land differently. It’ll be
connected to stories. So, I recommend it but not as casual viewing and I don’t think you’ll
be disappointed and you will certainly be emotionally moved. And it’s narrated by Peter
Coyote who has a voice that sounds very distinctly American. A bit like the classic American
sound of Stan: You always love things that have a great
voice narrator. Marshall: Henry Fonda but with a hippie twist. Marshall: Yeah. Peter Coyote is a narration
alone is just is interesting just to listen to. Stan: Every single thing you bring up that’s like a movies.
Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Or an audiobook. You love it because
of the voice. Marshall: There are and there’s a guy named.
Stan: And it’s got a great voice. Marshall: There’s a guy named. There’s a Native
American named Nomaday. I think his name is Inscott Nomaday who has a beautiful resonant
voice. And yeah, they’re interesting people that they interview. So, it’s a lot of color
photography of interviews with people talking about these historians and that kind of thing
juxtaposed with some of the most intense faces of Native American kids. And from the camera,
I don’t know whether they knew exactly what was going on with that camera, but they look
into the camera and just it brings alive the stories of actual people. The story of the
railroad happening and all the stuff that went on with that. The introduction of the
horse to this continent and how that changed Native Americans lives. Some of the things
you’ve heard about like the Trail of Tears and and the Wounded Knee Massacre. And they
show photographs of these stuff too. So, it should be rated R in some ways for some of
the things that get in front of the camera from these old photographs. But I was prompted
to watch it because of seeing Buster Scruggs. And Buster Scruggs were stories about The
West. So, it’s like okay, now let’s take away from the movie version of The West to go to
something that’s about the real thing. That has been my thing. It’s on my mind every day.
Stan: Okay. I guess my thing this week is building my dream studio.
Marshall: I can see why. Stan: Yeah.
Marshall: This is great. Stan: One to two years ago, I brainstorm like,
what would I put in my dream studio if I could build a dream studio? And now I’m like trying
to, you know, doing it. Marshall: And you’re happy with it?
Stan: Well, I haven’t, it’s not done yet. Marshall: But are you happy with how it’s
going so far? Stan: Oh, yeah.
Marshall: Well, we’ve got this set here. Stan: This is a podcast set.
Marshall: It’s a great. Did you have aspirations to at some point actually build your dream
studio from a plot of land? Stan: Oh, like the building itself?
Marshall: Yes. Where you do the design of the layout?
Stan: I don’t think so. It was more about having a box and then putting stuff in it.
Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Stan: Like I don’t care if I build the actual
building. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: It’s the stuff in it. Marshall: Well, you’re doing it.
Stan: Yeah. Marshall: And it’s making this podcast happen.
This is not happening outdoors in an alley. Stan: It’s true. Yeah. Tall ceilings, we are
building artificial giant skylight. Marshall: You going to do a stop-motion animation
studio in here? Stan: I don’t do animation anymore.
Marshall: Okay. Stan: I got Cody.
Marshall: Well, this was a really lousy what’s your thing.
Stan: What? My dream studio? Come on Marshall, I brought up my shoes in the first episode,
I have headphones. Marshall: I love your dream studio.
Stan: My dream studio isn’t good enough for you?
Marshall: I love your dream studio. It’s wonderful. I’m so privileged to be a part of it.
Stan: Thank you guys for joining us in the Draftsmen Podcast. My name is Stan Prokopenko.
This is Marshall Vandruff. Marshall: That’s true.
Stan: How many stars do they need to leave us?
Marshall: Leave us the amount of stars that you think that this is worth.
Stan: And how many stars is that? Marshall: If it’s five, I’m not going to complain.
Stan: Five is the correct answer. Marshall: Thanks.
Stan: And. Marshall: And?
Stan: Leave a comment on YouTube. Marshall: If you have had an unsupportive
environment and you have overcome it give us the story. Tell us anything that you think.
What would you say to a person who says, “Look, I think I’ve got talent but I do not have
a supportive environment.”? What brief advice could you give them?
Stan: And what would you put in your dream studio?
Marshall: What would I put in my dream studio? Stan: No. I’m asking the audience.
Marshall: Oh! Yeah. Yeah. Stan: I don’t care about you.
Marshall: Yeah, right. Stan: But actually I do. But I think that
time is up. But I actually really do. Maybe we should, I want to know what your dream studio is. Marshall: Will bring up my dream studio another
time. Stan: If you want to hear what Marshall’s
dream studio is join us in a future episode. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: See you then. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: What are those called? Speaker 1: Teasers.
Stan: [chuckle] No. No. When like lost was the master that where it’s like a.
Speaker 1: A mystery box. Stan: What? No.
Speaker 1: Lost. Yeah. Stan: Yeah. Lost but when.
Marshall: Cliffhanger. Stan: Cliffhanger. That’s what the word I
was looking. We just left it on a cliffhanger. Marshall: Yeah.
Stan: What is Marshall’s dream studio? Marshall: Oh! Let me tell you about my dream