Importance of Natural Resources

Impact Investing in the Creative Economy

hello everyone, and welcome to today’s
webinar impact investing in the creative economy
And with that I’m going to turn things over to Eddie who will introduce himself
and we’ll get started from there. Thank You Christine so I’m Eddie Torres
I’m president and CEO of Grantmakers in the Arts. I’m going to start off by
introducing the participants in our webinar and then give a brief overview
of grantmakers in the arts and our interest in this issue and hand it off to Laura Callanan. So we are joined by Laura Callanan and she’s the founding partner of Upstart
Co-Lab. Upstart is a national collaboration connecting artists, social
entrepreneurs and impact investors. Prior Laura was Deputy Chair of the National
Endowment for the Arts before that she was a consultant with McKinsey & Company’s social sector office, senior advisor at the United Nations Development Program
and she’s held leadership roles of the Prospect Hill foundation, Rockefeller
Foundation, and the Wallace Foundation among other things Laura will be helping
frame today’s conversation around impact investing in the creative economy this
conversation will also be informed by Gary Steuer who’s president and CEO on
Bonfils Stanton Foundation in Denver Colorado
Gary oversees three million dollars in annual grant making to arts and culture
in the Denver area and empowers its signature programs and initiatives to
ensure they’re advancing innovation excellence community equity and the
quality of life the Bonfils Stanton foundation is currently exploring
mission-related investing through its endowment and Gary will share insights
into that journey Ellen Friedman is executive director of
the Compton foundation in San Francisco which seeks to ignite change sort of
sustainable just and peaceful future its program strategy supports transformative
leadership and courageous storytelling in the areas of peace environment and
women’s reproductive health rights and justice the Compton foundation is
committed to investing 100% of its endowment in mission related investments
I’m just going to kick off for a moment by talk why grant makers in the
is interested in this conversation I’m going to start with some information
that we feature in the GIA reader which can be found on our website this was a
report commissioned by Stephen Lawrence arts funding at 25 what data and
analysis continue to tell funders about the field and basically the headline of
the report is that post the Great Recession while arts philanthropy as an
absolute amount has continued to rise arts philanthropy is basically losing
market share that is to say the percentage of philanthropy that actually
goes to the arts is going down now so basically with foundations we’re seeing
you know the absolute numbers go up well while prior to the Great Recession
foundation was giving 13% to arts and culture now it’s about 8% after
inflation that’s about a three percent decline and now post recession it’s not
like foundations as a sector are changing strategies so what’s happening
basically what we’re seeing is as new foundations come online arts and culture
is diminishing as a priority so you know for first half of the century you’re
seeing most foundations giving to the Arts
by the 90s word about 80% and from 2000 on were around 60% of foundations giving
to the Arts and we’re seeing funding patterns basically remaining stable and
that the largest institutions receive the most support museums performing arts
presenters and you know this is ultimately the story of foundations
certainly playing an important role but there’s a broader story here to be told
you know so while we’re seeing individual philanthropy increase 14
percent of individual philanthropy we’re seeing a 14 percent increase in
individual philanthropy but the increase in arts philanthropy among individuals
is going up 10% corporations are giving at
lower levels and while the National Endowment for the Arts continues to see
increases for which we’re grateful local art agencies and state arts
agencies are declining in terms of their giving to the arts now the reason I
bring all of this up is twofold on one hand we want to see more tools to
support arts and culture and therefore more money well we also see this as an
opportunity now right now cultural philanthropy you know according
to the large report so that lets off at about 2014 at about thirty three point
six billion dollars going to arts philanthropy right let’s say all of
philanthropy was going to the arts that would put us at about three hundred
ninety billion dollars that’d be fantastic but the fact of the matter is
when you look at socially responsible investing we’re looking at a market of
about eight point seven trillion dollars so my point is not just that we want to
see more philanthropy going into the arts that’s certainly true my point is
when you look at all of the resources that can be leveraged towards social
good in the world there is a far greater opportunity than just philanthropy we
want to see the vast array of opportunities that are at our disposal
being leveraged for the sake of supporting arts and culture and
complementary to this is the issue of low-income communities and the
opportunities that are specific to low-income communities you know so
social impact of the Arts Project which has been doing research for the past 20
plus years on the social benefit of arts and culture in low-income communities
has found that cultural assets and the presence of cultural assets is highly
correlated with increased social outcomes related to education health and
safety and specifically that this correlation is highest in low-income
communities in communities of color etc so as we look at for instance I used to
be Deputy Commissioner for cultural affairs here in New York City we
expanded through our capacity building program our support to communities so
that we were supporting more than just nonprofit organizations so what we were
finding was among cultural stakeholders we were also seeing small businesses we
were seeing for-profit venues we were seeing book stores all of which served a
a community purpose that was more than just their return more than just the
business they were doing they were actually acting as stewards of their
cultural community so I say all that to say when we have an opportunity in front
of us it’s a beholden upon us to explore it as fully as we possibly can and this
is a great opportunity to leverage all the amount of capital that’s going on in
the world to make sure that our student culture are playing a role in fostering
healthy communities so with all that said I wanted to hand this off to Laura
Kalinin to begin to explore this conversation with us further Laura
thanks Betty thank you so much as you introduced me I am the founding partner
of upstart collab upstart is connecting impact investing to the creative economy
so what’s the creative economy the creative economy is the economy of ideas
it includes art and design it includes culture and entertainment media heritage
you can see from the slide all of the different types of businesses all of the
different types of activities that make up the creative economy what we found is
that the way a region defines its creative economy is very much reflection
on the heritage and culture and tradition of that place so for example
the state of Louisiana in their official definition of the Louisiana creative
economy they include food and you can imagine why Creole cooking and
what happens in New Orleans and why that’s such a big part of culture and
tradition in a place like Louisiana the state of Michigan has opted not to
include food in the way they define their creative economy for Michigan so
sorry for anyone from Michigan who might be on the call today but just to say
that since upstart takes a national perspective we include all of these
different business categories and creative activities when we scope and
describe what makes up the creative economy the creative economy is 3% of
the global economy it’s growing at 9% a year around the world in the United
States it’s 4.2 percent of our economy here 760
billion dollars of the US economy is connected to art and design culture and
creativity food fashion media and entertainment and and we think that this
is important and we’re excited about it we’re excited that the creative economy
is 4.2 percent of the u.s. economy today and is growing and so we scratch our
heads when our friends at the global impact investing Network the djinn an
organization that thinks a lot about impact investing and where impact
investing dollars are going we scratch our head when our friends at the gen
report that art and culture is less than 0.5% of where Jin members are investing
for impact today you can see this chart with the big fat zero next to arts and
culture now you might be asking well wait a minute you just said that the
creative economy includes art and design and media and entertainment and food and
fashion and all those things well what about some of these other slices of the
pie in housing the biggest slice of the pie up there at 27% maybe there’s some
artists affordable housing there built by art space or some of the other groups
that that the arts sector knows well microfinance there’s got to be some
microfinance schemes focused on artisans in the developing world you were talking
about food food and agriculture is one of the categories there maybe there’s
some artisanal food brands that are included manufacturing well maybe that
includes fashion or design or jewelry or so furniture making or some of the other
things that you were describing before and I would say out
solutely I believe that the creative economy is included in where these
impact investors these members of the global impact investing Network are
putting their money to work to do good in the world and to make a financial
return the problem is the arts and culture piece the creative economy piece
is flying under the radar it’s happening but it’s not being called out and that
makes it more difficult for potential investors who are investing for impact
to target the creative economy so just to review some definitions
deddi already talked about socially responsible investing I’m using the term
impact investing what do we mean so here’s the kind of the official
definition for impact investing user investments they’re not grants they’re
not donations these are loans or equity investments or some other type of proper
financial investment into companies and organizations and funds but they are not
just trying to make the most money possible they’re trying to make money
but they’re also looking to generate a social and environmental impact
alongside making that financial return so you might hear terminology like
double bottom-line investing triple bottom-line investing impact investing
socially responsible investing mission related investing and program related
investments you might hear all of these terms and these are all part of the same
set of approaches that are trying to invest to do well and to do good
together program related investments are obviously very particular to foundations
that the tool that foundations have used for a long time mission related
investments speak to when a foundation uses the corpus of its endowment and
tries to align it alongside its grant making to drive its mission forward but
for the purposes of our call today let’s just think about this as a whole set of
related activities that are investments not grant investments that are trying to
make a financial return and do good in the world
as Eddie was describing impact investing is large and it’s growing it’s eight
point seven trillion dollars of assets under
management in America today you can see that that’s doubled since 2012 which is
just spectacular as next-gen members are becoming more active in making decisions
about their wealth and in building their their financial resources they are
predominantly moving into impact investing as more women take control of
their wealth they are moving into impact investing so this is something that is
only going to continue to grow impact investing has been described as going
mainstream and so this is this is a growing source of financial resources
that can do good in the world so why should people like all of you on this
call who care about arts and culture care about impact investing because in
the words of the great American bank robber Willie Sutton that is where the
money is eight point seven trillion dollars assets under management doing
impact investing in America today compared to the 390 billion with a B
billion dollars that is deployed philanthropically in America on an
annual basis so to me it’s very important that people who care about the
future of arts culture heritage creativity particularly in communities
that may not have maximum resources of their own people who care about these
things need to be thinking about how impact investing can be tweaked and
redeployed and applied to activities in the creative economy upstarts done a
bunch of research in this and we started with our colleagues in the Community
Development space folks like you see on this slide who are community development
finance institutions these are effectively nonprofit banks that are
tasked with bringing financial resources into low-income communities that don’t
typically have great access to conventional capital and reaching out to
the folks on this slide and many others like them we we started a conversation
about a year 18 months ago to say what are you doing in the creative economy as
part of your comprehensive strategy to work in low-income communities and the
first answer we got from group like liske and enterprise and coastal
enterprises etc I was to say well you know that’s not really what we do we’re
not here to focus on arts and creativity we build affordable housing or we make
small business loans and we ask them okay we get that but do us a favor and
really dig into your portfolios and into the projects that you’ve been investing
in and come back and tell us what you find and across the board everyone come
back and said you know what we actually have been doing a lot in arts culture
design creativity some of its been encouraged by the efforts that
foundations have taken the leadership off about creative placemaking and to
provide some resources so that groups working in low-income communities can
provide technical assistance and be a little bit more mindful hire a dedicated
staff member etc to be thinking about creative placemaking and what that means
as part of comprehensive Community Development but overall what we’re
finding is these groups have been investing in creative places they’ve
been investing in creative businesses some of the creative places have been
nonprofits but not all all of the creative businesses have been for-profit
small ones and large one and that increasingly this is an on-ramp to
opportunity for women entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs of color we’re observing a
significant correlation between investments in women entrepreneurs
entrepreneurs of color and the fact that these folks are starting businesses in
the creative economy this makes us excited and it shows that the
philanthropic resources foundations have dedicated to building community
development to building impact investing and to building creative placemaking
have set the stage for a lot of great activity for the future
connecting impact investing to the creative economy we’ve also found in our
research at upstart colab that increasingly impact investing funds are
starting to pay attention to the creative economy some fun like the Hiva
fund which is actually out of Nairobi Kenya is specifically targeting the
creative economy of East Africa some funds like the Arts impact fund that is
housed at the think-tank Nesta and London is specifically targeting revenue
generating activities of arts charities in the UK but that other impact funds
like radical impact and community investment management and the
collaborative fund are seeing that arts culture creativity food fashion design
are key elements to advancing what they’re trying to do for for underfunded
entrepreneurs and for low-income communities so we think that there is
starting to be a groundswell of early attention focused on the creative
economy aligning with impact investing which means for us it’s the perfect time
to introduce what we call a creativity lens if you’re familiar with gender lens
investing we’re borrowing from the experience of investors who prioritize
women and girls and why do we call it a lens because what is a lens do a lens
helps you to see it brings things into focus it’s a viewfinder and what we want
folks to be able to do is see what’s already been happening the track record
in the experience for investing in creative places and creative businesses
and to see the potential for this going forward now you’re probably on this
webinar today because you care about arts and culture first and foremost I’m
putting it in this frame of creative economy in part because when you talk
about impact investing in the arts people get confused where they’re like
how do you invest in a ballerina how do you invest in a bassoon and player and
part of the reason is that we know that creative people they don’t stick in
their lanes they might train in art and design but then they end up or opening a
bakery where they open an architecture business a design and build business or
they start a music festival right and so they branch out into two different ways
of taking their creative tools and looking at the problems they see around
them and starting to attack and address those issues but what I’d like to do
quickly is just share three examples that really demonstrate how folks who
train in art and design are able to benefit when impact investing dollars
flow so I’m going to start with Meow Wolf this is a 140 artist
Santa Fe New Mexico they came together they took over an abandoned bowling
alley and they turned it into a phenomenal immersive art experience
400,000 visitors to nail wolf last year nine million dollars in revenue a
million dollars from the gift shop alone this is the most Instagrammed site in the
state of New Mexico the state has done an economic impact
analysis and predicts that in 10 years Meow Wolf will contribute 350 million
dollars to the economy of the state of New Mexico male wolf is a registered B
corporation which means it’s a for-profit company that is committed to
promoting good things for the environment good things for their
workers and good things for their communities they’re currently raising
twenty million dollars of debt and equity from impact investors to expand –
to Denver to Las Vegas and then a few other cities beyond that so this is an
investable opportunity it’s absolutely aligned with impact and it is founded by
artists and it ensures that the artists that are participating have quality jobs
they have health insurance they are making money off their ideas and they’re
in control of the content that they are creating and they’re doing it in a way
that benefits themselves as an artist community and other members of their
community as well Eli in media is a producer of social impact video games
and I’m going to highlight just one of their titles the game never alone which
they produced in conjunction with the Cook Inlet Tribal Council of Alaska this
is a video game that that leverages a traditional story a traditional Native
Alaskan story young girl and her pet Fox go out into nature to find the source of
the endless snow storm the game is narrated in a traditional Alaskan
language with English subtitles the music in the game the artwork in the
game all of it was produced with artists from Alaska need of a Native Alaskan
artists this is a way to use a really modern medium of the video game not just
to preserve a traditional culture for the young people in Alaska but to
communicate and share this culture with young people around the world so this is
a platform for producing video games and it’s not just techies who produce who
are part of building a video game its artists as well and this is a phenomenal
example of how world games can preserve and share traditional cultures and the
artwork and the music and the storytelling that’s been part of those
cultures for centuries and just our last example a really familiar platform known
to a lot of creative people Kickstarter though Kickstarter’s also registered B
corporation again an example of a company that’s committed to doing well
and doing good as it grows obviously this is a platform that allows billions
of dollars of capital to flow to millions of projects that creatives are
starting all around the world more money is going through Kickstarter to support
creativity than even our National Endowment for the Arts and for
Kickstarter to continuing to grow as they attract investment capital again
they’re attracting that from impact investors so this is an example of how
impact investors are helping to build the ecosystem that allow creative people
to thrive to be able to build their ideas and build them to scale so that’s
just a quick snapshot of what we are seeing as the opportunity and the
potential for impact investing in the creative economy I’m excited now to hand
this over to my colleague and friend Gary story so Gary and the Bonfils
Stanton foundation are early in their exploration about what it could look
like to bring mission related investing to the arts community in Denver and you
know I know a lot of you on the phone are also early in in thinking about and
exploring what’s possible so I think you’ll find a lot of great tips and and
things that you can relate to as Gary describes what’s happening in Denver
Colorado Gary over to you okay thanks Laura well as Laura said I’m my role
here is to be the sort of newbie which may be the same place that many of you
are in so first a little background on the foundation our name comes from two
people May Bonfils and Ed Stanton May Bonfils her wealth and her name came
from her father Frederick Bonfils who as co-founder and publisher of The
Denver Post in the era when one could actually make a lot of money from a
local newspaper and her husband Ed Stanton was a prominent designer kind of
ahead of his time in the sense that he designed lots of different things he was
trained as an industrial designer he did landscape design architecture interior
design and the foundation was established on May’s death in 1962 but
really didn’t begin grant-making and earnest until the 80s and I won’t go
into the whole history of the foundation you can go to our website and get more
more info but Edie Stanton was actually about 30 years younger than May hence
the gap there and a lot of her wealth was tied up in real estate so it took a
while to sort of unwind the real estate investments and and transfer those into
cash which became our corpus and in the early years we funded everything
healthcare Human Services education and the arts but with a corpus of depending
on how the stock market is doing between 75 and 85 million so you see on the
slide we’re now at 86 that allows us to make investments of about three million
dollars a year and it became clear that by investing in everything we were
really spreading ourselves too thin and so the trustees and this was done during
the era of my predecessor they went through a process of looking at the
needs within the community and the gaps and based on that decided to go all in
in arts and culture so since around 2013 we have been funding only arts and
culture with our entire grant making program we also decided to narrow our
geographic focus explicitly to Denver we had always been Denver focused but in
the past we funded things all over the state and in this desire to be more
focused we also became more geographically focused and those two
things will tie back to our exploration of impact investing we also operate something called the Livingston
fellowship program it’s a leadership development program for nonprofit CEOs
so through that program we continue to be engaged beyond the arts because that
program is not limited to the arts and we also began supporting with a group of
other funders something called arts and society that focuses on intersectional
work so again through that program we’re looking at the connection between the
arts and other areas of society and that also plugs us into the larger community
beyond arts and culture and through this we went from supporting about 20 arts
groups a year 10 years ago to now supporting about 50 so that’s just a
little background little snapshot on the foundation I’m now gonna move on to the
next slide and talking about our impact investing journey so I’ve always
actually believed that the arts were more than just nonprofit arts groups but
also encompassed individual artists who in effect are each businesses as well as
well as for-profit creative enterprises and in Philadelphia before I took on
this role I was in Philadelphia where I headed the city’s office of arts culture
in the creative economy where we really didn’t make these artificial
distinctions for example use CDBG funds to support creative workspaces I think
we funded eight creative workspaces in the city six of them were for-profit
enterprises and initially I got a lot of pushback within the city oh we can’t
support for-profit entities and my point was why not and gets back to this same
issue of its within the mission our mission is supporting creativity within
our community that doesn’t just happen in the nonprofit sector it happens in
the for-profit creative sector as well so in my role to foundation I began to
explore the spectrum of impact investing something I’ve been following for a
while and it was really driven in part by the fact that one I felt like it was
a vehicle for being able to support for-profit creative enterprises within
our community that I felt were part of the creative ecosystem
here and also frankly recognizing the fact that her grand making capacity was
pretty limited and gets to the point that Eddie made you know grand making
capacity is a pittance compared to the resources that are available in the
investment community so this education process really began with me but
ultimately had to expand to the board because the board really controls these
kinds of decisions so that that’s one point that I would make is it’s really
not just about educating yourself as a staff person even if you’re in a
position of leadership but ultimately you have to figure out how to bring your
board along and our board like most boards had traditionally managed
oversight of our investments in a very traditional way the goal was to maximize
returns avoiding too much risk trying to meet or beat benchmark returns of other
comparably sized endowments and essentially with a as a private
foundation with a fixed corpus it doesn’t grow if we’re paying out our 5%
minimum each year and our returns can average a little bit more than 5% then
that allows our corpus to grow a little bit over time we’ve really never done in
the past mission investing or ESG screening or the sorts of things that
Laura was talking about we did one PRI long time ago before my
time here so we really never had a PRI
program and certainly not since our mission focused on the art so when
upstart colab was launched I reached out to Laura as part of my education process
in our education process and we actually brought her in to talk to our board to
sort of begin their education process about not just what impact investing
would mean but for us as an art specific funder we had to sort of move
immediately to well what does this mean for investment in if your focus is arts
and creativity you know as as you heard there’s a lot of work happening out
there and impact investing but actually not a lot
in this slice that is arts and culture and creative enterprise and began
sharing impact investing articles and research with our board we interacted
with a Denver based entity called the impact finance Center and actually they
produce an annual sort of impact investing Fair Festival Conference
Colorado impact gaze and we actually gave some support to integrate a
creative enterprise focus into that interestingly one of the things we found
and this gets to the the data that that Laura shared there was actually
relatively little interest in the arts and creative enterprise track but a lot
of the arts projects and creativity projects were actually in the other
tracks and so they got actually more take-up and more interest positioning
themselves as a kind of poverty focused program or a housing focused program or
a healthcare focused program and so we believe that there’s tremendous
potential if we can actually begin using our corpus to make a mission-related
impact in addition to the grant making work that we do and so we’re in that
process still of talking to our investment committee talking to our
investment management firm because again this is a common thing it’s not just
your board and your investment committee most foundations most organizations with
endowments also use an outside firm especially if they’re smaller to manage
their investments and so it’s also recognizing that you actually need a
firm that has knowledge in this area or or they can support you in this work and
that’s an important piece of the puzzle too so now I’m going to move on to the
next slide which actually is really a series of questions because I thought it
might be helpful to share with you the sorts of questions that we’re asking at
this point so one and I alluded to this as a foundation with a grant making
focus specifically in the arts we do impact investing just in arts and
creative enterprise it certainly seems easier as you look at the landscape to
do if you’re in the affordable housing space or the environment or jobs there
are kind of easy plays easy investments in these area in these areas and there
are funds that invest in these areas and right now there it doesn’t seem to us
that there’s an easy way of doing this with a specific focus on the arts the
other is a question that we have is as a local geographically focused foundation
and again it’s quite common there are not that many nationally and
internationally focused foundations in this country many of us have a local
geographic focus so how do we do this at the local level where we’re looking just
at investments within our local community also all of our other
investments are essentially in different kinds of funds not individual companies
we’re not putting money in a specific company and again this is fairly common
with endowments and foundations our asset allocation divides investments
across multiple funds with different fund managers and this means that
there’s relatively little risk associated with failure of any
individual investment because each fund is invested in so many different
opportunities so many different businesses so our risk is spread and the
question is how do we diversify risk in that same way with impact investments
focused in arts and creative enterprise also these funds aggregate capital from
many investors and we recognize that our level of investment in this area would
not be enough to really spread investments across multiple
opportunities so is there a way to aggregate capital from multiple
investors locally to allow us to then invest collectively in a pool of
opportunity so that’s a question that we’re asking if that thing doesn’t exist
can we be play a leadership role in creating
such a pool of investors and then how do we identify the opportunities and and
one question we ask too is is if the local focus becomes too limiting the
reality is that we don’t apply a geographic screen to any of our other
investments so if we were able to have the opportunity to invest in arts and
creative enterprise investments that were in local we’re still getting part
of our mission return because their arts in creative enterprise even if we’re not
getting our local return so that’s a question we have as well as how do we
move if we can’t put these opportunities together at the local level how do we
move our board to a place where they can accept that we can get sort of a partial
Impact return by being able to focus on arts and creative enterprise even if
it’s not locally focused and and really the the other big area is this whole
issue of a returns trade-off historically in the past traditional
investors viewed mission-related and investing as something where you were
accepting a lower than market rate return to get a mission return so you
were saying ok we’ll put money into this thing it will rich if the market returns
are 7% we’re gonna we’re gonna assume we’re gonna earn 4 percent on our
mission related investing but we’re going to assume we’re getting a mission
return that somehow makes up for that loss of grant making capacity and again
this is still a mindset that our board has or many members of our board where
they’re not quite convinced that we don’t have to accept a returns trade-off
in order to do mission investing so that’s been really a part of the
education process as well and Laura alluded to kind of this there being a
full spectrum of opportunities here within this kind of broad area of impact
investing so I’m gonna close by just giving an example of a PRI a program
related investment because I think in many ways
pyaare eyes can be sort of almost like the gateway drug to get boards to begin
to understand how we can be using our corpus in different more strategic ways
that can have an impact return so I’m going to talk now about a PRI that we
made to the Museum of Contemporary Art so we’ve been longtime supporters of
Museum of Contemporary Art Denver right before the recession 2008 they embarked
on a really ambitious new building project it was actually the first
building in America designed by the architect David AJ and obviously given
the timing of things their fundraising really kind of slowed to a crawl
but they had to complete the capital project and they ended up taking out 12
million dollars in bank debt which for them was a huge amount of debt and in
retrospect they essentially locked in what was what we would view now is a
very high interest rate the result of this was that debt service was eating up
about a third of their operating budget and really frankly preventing them from
fulfilling their full potential as an institution they have a really dynamic
great director at the Museum and they were just not able to mount as many
original shows as they could they weren’t able to engage in proper
development activities marketing communications activities and this is
something that really concerned us as a funder that cared a lot about the
institution and the wanted them to fulfill their potential so we were able
to participate and really play a leadership role in assembling a
consortium of funders foundations and individuals that with a package of PRI
loans and grants was able essentially to pay off the bulk of this loan or to take
it out with lower interest debt and so some of it was paid off in a
straightforward way through grant funds but a big chunk of it was actually
replaced with much lower interest the result of this is that their debt
service was brought down by $500,000 a year our piece of this was a 1 million
dollar PRI loan at 1% interest with interest only during the early years of
the of the loan so for those that are less familiar with PRI is essentially it
counts as a grant so it it is counted towards our 5% payout as a grant but the
reality is that over time this money comes back to us so so and and and if
you look at investment performance during the economic downturn what many
foundations found was that their low interest fixed loans that were PR i–‘s
were actually their best performing investments in the recession so I think
for our board to see this PRI loan as a great success to see that we made the
loan that payments are coming back in to see that these funds will circulate gets
us to begin thinking about well ok if we used more of our corpus and we were able
for example Laura cited the example of Meow Wolf what if we were able to put
some of our corpus into something like Meow Wolf that was not paying 1% but
paying market returns paying 7% let’s say and in turn employing 200 local
artists isn’t wouldn’t that be an appropriate use of our corpus so that’s
where we are now we haven’t set up any specific policy haven’t like Ford set a
target of 10% of our corpus by X date but I think the pump is primed and our
board is really thinking about this and eager to do something and it’s just a
question of finding the right way to do it that answers a lot of those questions
that I posed and maybe also responds to opportunities like Meow Wolf as one
example and I’ll close there great thank you Gary this is Ellen
Friedman and I’m really excited to be able to share our journey with all of
you I’ll say at the front end I think that what’s happened in the last six or
seven years that the Compton Foundation has been doing impact investing is a
real shift in how we think about our philanthropies so I’ll talk about that a
little bit in my remarks so a little bit of history the Compton foundation is 65
years old it’s a Family Foundation was founded by Dorothy and Randolph Compton
who you can see on the slide after their son was tragically killed during World
War two in Europe and their primary goal when they founded the foundation in the
1950s was to end war and from the 1950s until the 1970s this was their primary
focus and they were very active givers in in that field in the 1970s their
remaining children joined the board and expanded their program areas to include
a focus on the environment and on women’s reproductive rights and those
three program areas have really stuck with the foundation since that time for
many years the foundation funded a range of work in policy and advocacy research
fellowships and local organizing in those primary areas but eight years ago
with the addition of fourth-generation family members who were in their 30s and
a new executive director being me who followed I followed somebody who had
been there for 23 years we used the opportunity to really really assess our
progress toward our mission and we made some big modifications we recognized
that change at the cultural level was really important if we were going to
advance support for peace for the environment and for women’s reproductive
right so that all of the data that we had was
not really moving the needle at that point in time there were four artists on
our board and that led to a series of conversations about the importance of
cultural change in our core areas and that the support of artists writers
filmmakers and other creative leaders was essential to moving this work
forward and that led to our new mission statement which you see here we ignite
change we support transformative leadership and
courageous storytelling inspiring action toward a peaceful just and sustainable
future and this new mission statement reflected our understanding that not
only did we need to invest in a new generation of leaders but we also needed
to invest in what we called courageous storytellers who could help move hearts
as well as minds in our core areas of interest so as part of our assessment he
also made a big decision in 2011 that we wanted to transition a hundred percent
of our at that time 57 million dollar endowment to align a hundred percent
with our mission we did this for three reasons first were a small foundation
and we really believed that we wanted to leverage all of the assets we had both
grant making and investment assets to advance our mission second we also
reflected that different kinds of capital are necessary to affect
different outcomes investment capital as we’ve been talking about supports
ongoing businesses new industries creative jobs green jobs and that kind
of capital is very different then grant capital that can produce shorter term
outcomes like organizing campaign research projects or specific artistic
presentations or projects so we Iraq we reflected that we wanted
our capital to be available for both kinds of efforts since we also recognize
that it takes a big ecosystem to change the world and finally we also came to
the belief that we wanted to be investing in the future that we wanted
to create and that we wanted to demonstrate that capital could be
deployed with a higher purpose than simply a financial return and we
fundamentally believe that this involves a shift in the framework of traditional
philanthropy and we wanted to prove that philanthropy could be not just about
grant making but must be about some of the moral decisions that we make with
our investment capital so the foundation had historically had some negative
social screens like no weapons manufacturing and we’ve done a small
amount of shareholder activism but we were not really doing anything proactive
in investing in the future economy that reflected our values and so we embarked
on a journey to figure out how to do that so like Gary’s situation we spent
about a year learning about the impact investing movement and talking with
people and having some studies and commissioned for us and then when we
really felt comfortable that this was something we wanted to do and could do
we issued a request for a proposal for a new investment advisory firm that had
expertise in this area and we had been working with a traditional investment
firm and it became clear during our our learning year that they would not fully
embrace our move in this direction and so we really wanted to find a firm that
could partner with us fully and so we retained Sonnen capital of
that is dedicated a hundred percent to impact investing and additionally they
are also dedicated to proving the business case that it is possible to
invest with your values and not leave returns on the table and in the six
years that we’ve been working with Sonnen this case has been solidly proven
we have not suffered at all in in our returns and Sonnen publishes and I’ll
send a link to this as follow-up an annual investment impact investment
report about about the impact of their investments and it’s on their website
and I think it could be very interesting as a way to demonstrate the kind of
impact that our investments have had so a few key points off of this slide in
the beginning I think impact investing has largely been focused in the green
economy and it’s been sort of what I would call the low-hanging fruit and
much of our portfolio has been invested in that work as part of that Compton was
one of the first 17 foundations to join the divest invest philanthropy campaign
which now represents over six trillion dollars of invested assets not just from
philanthropy but from pension funds university endowments etc that have
publicly declared that they will no longer invest in the fossil fuel economy
and are beginning to invest in a clean energy future as we have gained in
confidence in the impact investing space we are beginning to branch out we’re now
actively working with Sonnen to apply a gender lens to all of our investments in
the beginning this means just simply tracking the numbers of women for
instance on corporate boards but moving towards looking more
specifically at women owned companies and using a gender using gender as a
lens through which to assess risk of any particular investment and I would say
that our steps into the creative economy are similarly pushing Sonnen to apply a
creativity lens to our investments and we’re paying much more attention to this
because it’s aligned so well with our mission so for instance we have made an
initial investment in upstart co.labs loan pool for artists housing for
instance and we’re looking at other ways in which to express our commitment to
the creative economy I will talk about two investments in particular that may
be of interest to folks the most concentrated investments in the creative
economy that we’ve made to date have been in the areas of documentary and
feature film we knew from the outset that as a small program staff we were
not going to be in a position to review and assess documentary films that might
come our way so what we did is we joined a partnership called impact partners
which is a limited partnership that invests equity investments in
documentary films their 30 partners we support between four to six projects
each year and as the market for documentary films has evolved the
potential to realize returns from these investments has actually been quite
positive three of the films that we’ve invested in that have done quite well
are noted here you can stream the overnighters on Netflix the Eagle
Huntress was in theaters for an extended run and was on a short list for Academy
Award nomination and next week won’t you be my neighbor about Mr. Rogers is about
to hit the theaters and has already
received enormous positive press it will be on PBS as well in the fall but we
have realized an average of 15% return on films that we have partnered with
impact partners for and that’s been really exciting for us because not only
are these important films about environmental issues about girls
empowerment and with mr. Rogers a film about kindness and democracy they’re
important social films they’ve also done quite well
the second investment has been with game changer enterprise and game changer
films which is a financing fund for narrative feature films that provides
investment to women film directors women have historically had a very challenging
time raising initial funding for from traditional financing film financing
funds GameChanger predated the me2 movement by
a number of years and now many of the directors that received initial funding
through game-changer are now in high demand for more traditional funding
sources so we’re very excited about that land ho which is shown here was game
changers first investment and cost a bidding war after its premiere at the
Sundance Film Festival in 2015 and returned a healthy 40 percent to its
investors so yes film find financing and investing is challenging but with both
game changer and impact partners Compton has found two really thoughtful smart
partners to help us do this well and these are just two examples of
things in our portfolio we still have a lot to learn about investing in the
creative economy and we’re really pleased that our partners at Sonnen
capital have anxious and ready to dive in with us and
we’re excited to prove the point that you can do well by doing good
and that it’s an essential part of how philanthropy should be seen moving
forward so I’ll stop there and happy to answer any questions so turn it back to
Laura and Eddie starting to get questions that people are sharing
through the chat please now that you’ve heard from all four of us take a moment
and think about things you’d like us to speak about over the next half hour and
we will get to as many questions as we possibly can
we’ll start with a very practical one I think that Gary was the someone who
introduced the idea of 1% as the rate of interest that bond fee stanton
foundation charged on the program related investment made to the Denver
Art Museum so we got a question of whether is 1% typical is that what you
can expect to earn on impact investments and I would say no not at all and in the
context of a program related investment which is like Gary was describing those
are typically under priced they are an attempt to get a little bit more of a
rate of return than a grant which is zero percent rate of return but not to
get the maximum rate of return possible so oftentimes foundations set one or two
percent as a the interest rate they charge on program related investments
but that’s not at all representative of what you can expect
from impact investing and Ellen I know that you just described that overall
Compton’s experience has been very favorable in terms of the rate of return
that you’ve seen with your one hundred percent for impact portfolio so I don’t
know if you want to comment at all about the range of investment returns or how
you think about risk return trade-off as you work with Sonnen and make investment
commitments yeah thank you because this raises a point that I had
wanted to make which is Compton very specifically early on in our impact
investing discussion decided that we would not do program
related investments while they are very very useful and important tool in the
toolbox of impact investing we decided not to do that because we did not want
to compromise our grants budget but we also felt very strongly that we wanted
to prove the point that you didn’t have to make return trade offs and so that
has been a really important aspect of how we have looked at various investment
opportunities and and so we’ve really tried to keep our our impact investing
focus on the impact of our on our endowment and so you know we are talking
about kind of our when when we have new potential investments we are talking
about a range of issues including traditional questions of risk in return
as well as impact but we’re weighing them I think it’s fair to say that the
board is weighing those issues together and sees the impact in some cases even
more important than return fantastic um Eddie I think that there’s a question of
there for you from Alexandre if you could take a look at that certainly so
the question is in your opinion will it still be possible to think of a reality
of advancement and return to the standards presented and foundations
established before 1950 91 percent supporting the art and creative economy so this is an interesting one so I mean
basically my question my answer would be related to the follow-up question which
is what is the likelihood of older foundation’s adopting this new approach
of impact investing so you know in terms of whether or not foundations will
increasingly take up support to arts and culture at the levels at which they did
so in the first half of the 20th century I don’t know if that’s going to happen
through foundations grant making budget but the second question though becomes a
question of is there a large is there a larger opportunity for their larger
investment corpus to go into this space and this is actually what I’m really
excited about now don’t get me wrong I’m very excited about the grant making
corpus increasingly going to arts and culture but the larger financial
opportunity is actually present in the larger investment corpus so even when
you talk about PR is that still coming out of the grant making budget that’s
still coming out of 5% of the corpus that’s congressionally mandated to
support a social change what not but the larger 95 percent is where the real
money is you know so when you look at the Ford Foundation’s
commitment of a billion dollars of their corpus to go into impact investing you
know you look at that and you say well mission related investing in their case
you look at that and you say well that’s a twelfth of your of your investment
corpus but their grant making corpus is one-half of 1 billion it’s 500 million
maybe 600 million depending on the year when you look at a billion dollars of
their corpus going into impact investing that is 200 percent the size of their
grant making budget so that’s where you get real media opportunities even if
it’s only a fraction of that that’s going into arts and culture you’re still
looking at a much larger amount than their grant making corpus and that’s
true of foundations in general so that’s where I see the really rich
opportunities there again I’d love to see more of people’s grant making
budgets go into arts and culture but there’s no reason we have to
be exclusive to that source of money we have a question about how to how to
gauge how to measure the impact of investments in the creative economy and
Gary I’d like to ask you to start just to describe since sponsee Stanton
Foundation has decided that the most important way that you can make an
impact in Denver is through arts and culture how do you just from a grant
maker perspective at the moment how do you think about the types of effects and
impacts you look to see in the broader community on the well-being of your
neighbors in Denver through arts and culture because I think that it’s not
going to be that big of a leap from the way people think about the contribution
contributions that arts and culture make that they try to achieve through grant
making I think we’re going to see some very similar things that we can be
measuring and aiming for through impact investing so how does Bosque stand and
think about the impact through arts and culture in Denver sure well it’s a it’s
a great question and for us it’s something that we’re I think constantly
grappling with because you know it really is a question that operates on
two layers of one so obviously with with each and with and and there are
analogies to how we then translate that into impact investing so at the at the
sort of base level you’re you know you’re obviously looking at impact of
individual grants and and how you measure the impact of those of that
investment that you’re making in an organization and to be honest you know
there’s there’s a trend that we all know about with in philanthropy towards
project support over general operating support and I think that’s in part
driven by a desire that you must have measurable impact and that becomes much
harder to define when you’re talking about general operating support and I
will say for us as a funder the bulk of our support is general operating support
we believe that that’s critically important so in terms of outcome we’re
really looking at the health of the organizations that
were investing in overtime and then also they’re increasingly their path in
representing the values that we think are important like equity what is the
progress that they’re making how is it that we can help them and then you have
the kind of larger environmental issue because as a locally focused funder and
a funder that’s investing in a very broad portfolio of institutions
increasingly we’re looking at measuring our impact by the entire community so
what is the health of the cultural sector within our community and even if
we can’t prove causation versus correlation we can have a sense that if
we’re making a large diverse investment in a portfolio of institutions within
our community then if the health of the community as a whole grows if the
recognition of the community grows if participation grows then that’s
something that we can feel gratified that we and and hope that our
investments have collectively made a difference in those areas and I
think as we look at starting to make impact investments I think we’ll be
looking at that ultimately probably in that same two-tiered way so individual
investments and opportunities that obviously if they’re impact investments
we will be looking for competitive returns and success in each of those
investments recognizing that if we’re investing in a bucket of investment some
will succeed and and others will be less successful but collectively our ople be
that it’s generating market rate returns not the 1% of a PRI but then
collectively I think the hope will be because we recognize that the creative
economy in the community is an ecosystem that does not just include the nonprofit
arts or arts organizations that our philanthropy goes to that
engage in more impact investing the returns from those investments will be
not just financial returns but also mission related returns that are
investing in a part of the creative sector that our philanthropy doesn’t
reach which is individual artists and for-profit creative enterprises Ellen
how do you think about measuring the social impact of your investments at the
Compton Foundation particularly the ones that you’ve done that have been part of
your storytelling portfolio what do you look for and and how do you feel like
you’ve achieved your social impact goals yeah so I I think that in the film area
this is something we’ve thought a lot about because it’s two-tiered one is as
we make equity investments and films are bought for you know in a market place
that goes to the benefit of two filmmakers who have better revenue
streams and so in some ways having a market place for films creates more
opportunities for documentary filmmakers that’s different no less challenging but
it’s different than having to go to you know a hundred foundations to put
together the budget for a film and one of the one of the filmmakers that we
have actually we initially supported many years ago with a small grant for a
film they became impact partner supported for
two films of theirs and now Netflix has hired them to do some film work for
documentary film work for them and so what that shows is that through through
first grant but then equity support that they’ve been able to continue their
careers in a way that lends to much more stability the second is that when a film
like eagle Huntress is in theaters first six to ten to twelve weeks playing to
packed audiences you reach a constituency that often traditional
means of documentary film distribution do not reach and so that means that
people working on issues related to girls empowerment for instance have the
opportunity to be exposed to a much wider audience often in places that
traditional NGO partners might not reach and so I think that it both broadens the
audience and and helps to create opportunities that weren’t there
so I’ll jump in and just share a little bit from the upstart collab perspective
as we’re talking about people who are already doing impact investing and
convincing them that they want to include the creative economy in their
portfolio we’re starting off by showing them how the creative economy is a way
to get more of the social impact that they already want so if they already
care about the environment if they invest in sustainable fashion or
sustainable food they’re going to be doing something positive for the
environment if they are very focused on workers and fair trade issues and they
invest in ethical fashion they’ll be supporting companies that are
treating their workers well they invest in big corporations in the creative
economy will be supporting companies that treat their workers well if the if
the investor cares about women and girls you heard Ellen talk about gender lended
lens investing they invest in an ethical sustainable fashion company since the
majority of workers in the garment industry around the world are women they
would be advancing their goals towards a gender lens and so we’re starting the
conversation there to say the creative economy is a way to get more of that
social impact that you already want and you can measure it the way you’re
already measuring impact in the rest of your portfolio in a few years when
creative economy is a big deal and every impact investors already familiar with
it I’m excited to come back and expand the conversation to talk about the
things related to social cohesion building and quality of life and
well-being and some of the very special things that we all know that art and
culture and heritage can contribute to community some of the things Eddie was
talking about in terms of the special role the cultural institutions play in
low-income communities in particular so I think that there’s a big potential to
frankly influence how all impact investors think and measure the impact
that they’re aiming for and that the creative economy is the place to
initiate that conversation but in the short run just the low-hanging fruit is
to talk about how impact investors can achieve the impact that they already
already want in more better ways by supporting opportunities in the creative
economy we have a question from Laurel asking if you’ve seen any examples of
impact investing for Arts in the restorative justice space I haven’t but
there are a few other things that are sort of connected to that and a few of
it I’m sure are already on people’s radar in terms of trying to address
criminal justice report reform for example I think people are familiar with
the funds that Agnes guns helped to catalyze the art for justice fund as a
way is people think about it as in the context of impact investing though there
are a lot of attributes that are more traditional to philanthropy but I think
people were excited about the opportunity to unlock trapped assets in
the form of a piece of art that was sold as the beginnings of funding a hundred
million dollar fund that’s focused on criminal justice reform so I think that
that’s a very interesting place if you’re thinking about broader criminal
justice reform issues I also know that there are some some investable arts
opera art related opportunities connected to issues around addressing
chronic homelessness which also is part of a bigger conversation about the
underserved communities I’m thinking of artlifting which is a group out of
boston an investable opportunity that works with people who are formerly
homeless or people with disabilities so that they’re making art working able to
sell it through a platform that allows them to reach buyers and investors and
I’m also thinking about here in New York there are some examples of affordable
housing affordable housing facilities where artists and formal or chronically
homeless people are neighbors together in the same housing facility where some
of the amenities to the building include a dance studio and a black box theater
and that there those are resources that are available both to the artists
tenants in this affordable housing space as well as the formerly chronically
homeless tenants who are there so there’s certainly an implication that
bringing these two groups of folks together that there are going to be some
opportunities for cross-pollination that will be positive
for everyone involved so let’s say a couple of the other interesting
questions that we’ve got we have one from Catherine who’s asking do you think
that very established artists could be the next investors and supporters of the
ethical and creative economy she brings up after the era of collectors from the
fashion industry like Prada or Vuitton who created a financialization of the
art market so how could we get established artists on board or perhaps
we’re already on board so yeah the question really is how to get a very
established artist to be investors I don’t think it’s a surprise that we’ve
got a lot of folks who are successful creatives working in Hollywood working
in the art world who have already found their way to impact investing I know the
fanuc totally with some of my friends who are impact wealth advisors so what
I’m excited for and this is something that upstart is looking to help usher in
in the foreseeable future I’m excited for that impact investor who’s a
creative person who decides that they want to be sort of the leader the
ambassador person who really makes that a big part of their brand and what
they’re known for and I think that’s going to be a very
exciting way to open a door to bring more folks in to impact investing who
already deeply believe in the power and the potential of arts and culture to
make really great things happen in the world so stay tuned for that bull face
name from music or Hollywood or the visual art world who we’re hoping will
be helping a lot of people pay more attention to the potential for arts and
culture and impact investing to go together this is Gary I just wanted to
interject on this question as well I think kind of related to the issue of
can successful artists with wealth be a part of this investment movement I would
add to that cultural institutions with their own large endowments this is not
just foundations but if you look you know collectively how much wealth is
tied up in the endowment of our major cultural institutions that
again is largely invested in traditional ways without any focus on creative
enterprise or art in how they or any other issue areas and how they invest
their funds I think one would hope that there would be a specific interest among
those funds those investors to invest in creative enterprise paper carry well
you’ve got the mic why don’t you talk a little bit about how you think about
differences between grant making and impact investing clearly this is
something you all have been thinking about and as you described talking about
with your board so what are some of the things that you see is the biggest
differences and what it would take within your foundation to make impact
investing you know part of your your toolbox yeah well I think I think there
as you referenced they’re sort of two different tools and I think one of the
for us the appeal of looking at this is recognizing that unlike a community
foundation we don’t raise money are our capacity to make a difference in our
community does not significantly grow over time our corpus is roughly the same
level that it was many many years ago I will make one clarification though which
is that there was a reference about the doing a PRI coming out of your grant
money in our case the million dollars that we provided as a PRI to Museum of
Contemporary Art we were very intentional that that was in addition to
our 5% payout so we did not take it out of our grant making capacity that year
in effect we over distributed that year so I think there are different ways you
can approach how you do PR i–‘s where it’s not part of your grant making I
mean technically it is but in in terms of how you consider it it doesn’t come
out of your grant making capacity it’s done in addition to that
and I think for us the the big opportunity here is looking at our
corpus looking at that 80 million dollars and we’re and realizing that and
again this gets to the point that Eddie was making and you were making more if
if we are able to invest let’s say 10% of that in mission focused in investing
and I’m not I’m not gonna I think for us it probably is unrealistic to say we
could go a hundred percent as as Compton does again because of our narrower
philanthropic focus I just don’t see us being able to to go all in but let’s
pick a number and let’s say ten percent if our corpus is eighty five million ten
percent is eight point five million dollars that’s being deployed in our
community supporting creative enterprise and and an artists and creative
businesses whereas our grant-making capacity is three million dollars a year
so that’s close to triple of our grant making capacity and so I think it if we
are able to do this it will significantly increase the impact that
we’re able to have in our in our community that’s great and we’re seeing
a few kind of technical questions about how an investment gets paid back and
what it’s good for sort of where it should be applied so I’m just going to
try to respond to those quickly so unlike a grant which you know oftentimes
people use to supplement earned income or or grants and and gifts may be the
primary source of revenue that a nonprofit organization uses to fund its
programming and investment is intended to help an organization to grow with the
with the idea that this growth capital will allow the organization to earn more
income that it’s going to be from that earned income that the investor can be
paid and paid back and that that’s going to be beneficial for the future health
of viewer of the entity and achieving its mission going
forward so some of the questions we’ve got about you know how to how do
investors get paid back or they pay back through earned income absolutely right
the intention of an investment is to help an organization to grow or to save
money by becoming more efficient and that was I think it’s really well
illustrated in the example that Gary shared about helping the the Museum of
Contemporary Art in Denver refinance at a lower interest rate and be able to
save money that he’d been spending on debt service being able to expand their
programming etc we’re coming up on time I’d like to give Gary and Eddie a chance
to share any final thoughts so Eddie anything last words you’d like to share
with folks yeah I mean just to reiterate the point I made before you know when we
were reviewing the research from the social impact of the arts project on the
influence that the presidents of cultural assets in low-income
communities had on various improved indicators of social health for a
community you know when when they articulated what a cultural asset was
that included nonprofit organizations artists audiences but it very explicitly
included private businesses creative Friday’s private businesses and so when
we look at it through an equity lens and I mean equity in the sense of social
equity racial equity etc this is a real opportunity to make full investments in
our communities to leverage every approach to support our community’s
health and in doing so also support the health of the full cultural ecosystem so
we’re just really excited about this as a further opportunity for investment in
our communities and in arts and culture that’s fabulous
Gary any final words from the perspective of the bond fee Stanton
foundation in Denver well I would say only that I I feel that
we are emblematic of a lot of foundations in this in this country and
I think there are many of my colleagues are going through this same exploration
process and I feel like we’re at a bit of a tipping point I feel that this this
education as is happening I think as was illustrated by our other panelists they
ended up changing their investment advisor to really dig in and do this
work and to have a partner in a colleague that’s doing this work and I
think as more and more investment advisors begin to because many say they
do this work but but don’t really do it well and I think as there’s more and
more expertise built I think you’re gonna see more and more foundations
taking this approach and I think for us it’s really exciting and we are I feel
like where we’re at the beginning of a process and if you kind of check back
with us in 10 years I think you will find our corpus deployed in a very
different way and Ellen just any final thoughts or
closing remarks that you’d like to share with the group from the perspective of
the confident foundation being invested a hundred percent for impact and finding
exciting ways to include storytelling and film and the arts as part of that
portfolio I think what I would just say is this is an amazing journey and while
we started primarily focused on the environment the opportunities that we
now see particularly in the creative economy space I think are really
exciting and and I think as the number of people have said this just frees up
additional capital to be invested in places that we all really care about and
having good partners having good information and thinking differently
about how to use our capital I think gives an incredible opportunity and very
very exciting frankly for board members to see how capital can be deployed in
lots of new and different ways that’s great so on behalf of upstart collab I
would encourage anyone who’s been stimulated by the discussion today
please visit our website we’re trying to be a go-to spot for a lot of information
on this subject hopefully the information you’ll find there will be
useful if you’d like to learn more and certainly feel free to reach out to me
laura Kalinin or any of us at upstart if you’ve got more particular questions or
think this is a conversation that you’d like to engage engage on at your
organization so I’m going to turn it back to Christine as the Foundation
Center to wrap us up awesome Thank You Laura and Eddie and thank you Gary and
Ellen for providing us with this firsthand insight on impact investing in
the arts and thank you all for attending today’s webinar as you can see on our
current slide we very much hope that you keep in touch via social media so on
behalf of foundation center our hosts and our presenters thank you thank you
thank you for joining us today if you like this webinar we hope that you’ll
join us again soon have a fabulous rest of your day and also be reassured that
we do have a number of questions that we kept track of that
posing the QA that we weren’t able to get to and we will be circulating a QA
document within about a week with answers to those additional questions so
you can be on the lookout for that via email as well so thank you everyone have
a fabulous day

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